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具有借鉴意义的精神之旅




具有借鉴意义的精神之旅

——专访贝宁共和国驻华大使西蒙·阿多韦兰德(Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE)

文|本刊记者 许成之 裴安迪   翻译| 王晓波



  导 读 

我来自贝宁,我们的国家也正面临着贫困的挑战。因此焦裕禄和兰考的经验可供我们借鉴,他们所发生的翻天覆地的变化也非常值得我们学习

● 深刻的河南印象

独特的河南文化与精神

脱贫与产业发展的借鉴意义

中非峰会后的期望


从2016年开始,我先后到访河南省4次,河南的快速发展令我印象深刻。通过我们此行的参观访问,我们能够实际接触当地的人民,倾听他们的想法,了解他们所做事情的意义,之后我们的看法发生了根本改变。我认为,在一个地方行之有效的做法在另一个地方可能就行不通,因为它们的文化背景存在差异。你需要从每个地方的实际情况出发,找到可行的思路。”贝宁驻华大使西蒙·阿多韦兰德阁下就此次“非洲国家驻华使节团赴河南考察旅行”活动接受《中国投资》记者采访时表示。

深刻的河南印象

《中国投资》:听闻您到访过中国的许多省份,与它们相比,此次河南之行有哪些方面给您带来深刻的印象?

西蒙·阿多韦兰德:是的,我很庆幸自己在两年时间里已经去过中国的14个省市。对我来说,每个省都有其独具特色的地方。在中国,你不可能找到两个完全相同的省。我非常喜欢参观每个地方的博物馆,借此对其历史获得一定的了解,在我看来,河南完美地将历史、现在和未来结合在一起。
这次,我们参观了位于安阳的中国文字博物馆,在那里我们看到了中国文明的一个重要组成部分,即中国历朝历代流传下来的汉字。置身在博物馆里,中国汉字的发展历史尽收眼底,让你对它的演变进程有了一些感性认识。而且这些不同朝代使用的文字里不仅体现其文明和历史,也让人意识到中国最终形成统一文字的必要性和意义。现在的非洲也面临这一挑战,不同的国家使用不同的文字,给彼此的沟通带来了难度。而在中国,十多亿人民在说话和书写时都使用同一种语言和文字,这是文明得以延续的关键所在,也是我在参观博物馆后的感悟。

独特的河南文化与精神

《中国投资》:与您前几次访问河南省相比,请问河南在您的印象中发生了哪些变化?

西蒙·阿多韦兰德:首先,这次访问是由中国外交部组织,同行的都是非洲各国的使节。我们去了河南的几个城市,参观了该省的不同领域,它们都给人留下耳目一新的印象。我第一次去河南是2016年,我先到的省会城市郑州,是一座现代化城市。由于郑州属于贸易枢纽城市,因此,我们在那里看到的是繁忙的机场和许多新建的道路等基础设施。这次再去看到那里出现了许多新的建筑物和基础设施,说明他们在短短两年里发展得很快。

然后,我们参观了洛阳市的龙门石窟,它让你体会到信仰带给人的坚定决心,因为当时的人们要在这样一座高山上雕刻,实在太了不起了。这不仅需要信仰和决心,并且当时的领袖还要具备恢宏的视野并且得到人民的支持,才能创造出这样令人震撼的奇迹。接着,我们又去参观了中国武术的发源地——少林寺,这也很让人惊叹。那里不仅有许多游客,还有从世界各地而来的学习武术的学生。我在那里见到了来自科特迪瓦、贝宁、德国等国家的学生。他们为什么千里迢迢地到寺庙里学习呢?不也是出于精神方面的追求吗?我们还在安阳参观了红旗渠,长达1500公里的人工运河穿山而过!实在令人难以置信。我认为,它充分反映了中国人民面对挑战时努力奋斗的勇气和力量。

还有令我印象深刻的兰考,在那,我们了解了焦裕禄的生平。作为一位领导人,他改变了当地的面貌,帮助人民摆脱了贫困。我认为他给其他官员树立了榜样,他这种为人民服务的精神值得大家学习。他当时还很年轻,面对着前所未有的巨大挑战,他做到了,这非常令人敬佩。我来自贝宁,我们的国家也正面临着贫困的挑战。因此焦裕禄和兰考的经验可供我们借鉴,他们所发生的翻天覆地的变化也非常值得我们学习。

脱贫与产业发展的借鉴意义

《中国投资》:正如您提到兰考人民为脱贫所付出的努力,以及您的国家也正在努力让人民摆脱贫困的生活。请问兰考的脱贫经验是否对贝宁有参考意义?

西蒙·阿多韦兰德:河南的一些地区,特别是山区,让我想起贝宁的北部,因为那里也属于多山的地区。它们的地形虽然相似,可是贝宁的贫困率却比河南高多了。河南当地人民靠山吃山,将其作为发展的机遇,并成功地摆脱了贫困。在兰考,你会发现当地不仅正在大力兴建基础设施,而且这座城市已经利用一些民族乐器发展成为了一个旅游胜地。它充分证明你完全可以利用自然资源,并使之成为增加收入的途径,这非常了不起。我亲眼看到那里的女性制作乐器的过程,而且当地也因此出名了。连外国人都被吸引来了,渐渐地它就成为了一个旅游城市。他们这种从自然界的挑战中创造获益机会的做法确实很鼓舞人。

当然,这些也得益于领导人的工作作风。我发现那里的领导们与人民联结得非常紧密,他们把自己当作人民的一员。遇到问题时,他们会邀请民众参与讨论,找出解决方案。他们彼此之间已经融为一体,共同面对挑战,共同采取措施克服,因为在这种时候缺了谁都是行不通的。领导如果希望他提出的方案能够被采纳,他必须首先得到人民的认可;而人民如果觉得领导是在替他们着想,就会对领导充满信任。另外,我还阅读了焦裕禄的许多事迹,我意识到他之所以能受到人民的爱戴就是因为他心里时刻装着人民。人民亲眼目睹了他为他们所做的一切,他们当然拥护他。他是一位了不起的领导,他的事迹令我很感动。

《中国投资》:此次河南行,非洲使节们还参观了河南的产业园区和企业,您认为在这些方面有什么可供非洲国家借鉴的经验吗?

西蒙·阿多韦兰德:我在河南访问时还收获的一些在农业发展方面的经验。我们参观了一家拖拉机制造厂,了解了它的发展历史。他们当年建厂的目的就是为了应对农业发展的需要。这是一个可供我们学习的地方,我认为我们可以在这方面展开合作。郑州现在已经成为了中国中部的交通枢纽,包括机场在内的各类基础设施将中国各地都连接起来了。因此,在农产品方面可以展开合作。我们与河南省的郑州与一些公司举办了经济论坛。河南的一些公司已经在一些非洲国家开始了业务合作,虽然在贝宁还没有。因此,现在我要学习和借鉴他们取得的成功经验。目前,我们已经与一些农业企业和电子商务公司建立了联系,看看我们可以一起做些什么。这次行程的目的之一就是学习,同时找出能够与河南省合作的机遇。

另外,我们非洲国家大多数时候会思考中国南部的发展,比如广州。但我认为,在电子商务、贸易合作和空中运输枢纽方面,我们应当更关注郑州。我们参观了致力于用于进、出口贸易的郑州国际商品交易中心。并且,河南省在电子商务领域有着巨大的发展潜力。因此,贝宁使馆希望继续探讨贝宁与河南省在发展电子商务方面可以展开哪种类型的合作。我甚至打算再去一次,与他们交流我们国家和使馆应当怎样与他们展开合作,促进双方的发展。

另外,我们参观了一家医院,在那里也有不少收获。我们看到了中国医疗体系的实际运作过程。中国有这么多人口,我常常想知道他们是怎样为民众提供医疗服务的。带着这个问题,我特别注意观察了他们的运行机制。我发现政府对医院的基础设施、设备、软件系统和管理都极为重视,这些都是我们应当学习的。河南在与非洲国家的医院合作以及派遣医生援助非洲方面也很有经验。尤其是中国的援外医疗队,这充分表现出中国人民愿意帮助他人的精神。由此也可以看出中国走出去不是要挑起战争,而是与他人分享或者帮助他人。分享自己的繁荣,同时给予他人关爱。这一经历对我也意义重大,我甚至给我们国家的卫生部长发函,建议他们组织贝宁有关方面的人士来访,走一走,看一看,借机学习中国的经验。谢谢你的提醒。总之此行令我感到非常振奋和满足。

中非峰会后的期望

《中国投资》:从更高的层面来说,2018年在北京举办的中非合作论坛中提出了八大行动计划。今年是实施这些行动计划的第一年,对此您有哪些期望?

西蒙·阿多韦兰德:第一个期望就是今年六月将在长沙举办的首届经贸论坛暨博览会,这是一个很好的机会。我认为这是去年九月中非论坛后的一个重要平台,我们可以借此讨论具体方案并开始行动。在我看来,贸易是实施行动计划的一个关键所在。这些年来,我们一直聚焦基础设施,但实际上我们也非常需要进行贸易合作和展开人文交流。因此我今年的期望就是长沙的经贸论坛,它是开始具体行动的起点。中非合作论坛为我们制定了合作框架,但我们需要将其细化,才能看到它所产生的影响。不过在此之前,我们还应考虑那些一直以来我们没有给予足够重视的方面。正如我刚才提到的,我们对基础设施建设非常关注,而且中国在这方面的工作也的确很出色。但我们有必要扩大合作的范围,看看怎样能够对人民产生更大的影响。

我认为有三个方面值得引起重视。首先是教育领域。现在中国政府为来中国学习的学生提供了奖学金,但我认为我们更应关注职业技能培训。因为目前大多数非洲国家都在兴建基础设施,发展旅游业和设立产业园。要想在产业园工作是需要一定技能的,因此我们应当对当地居民提供培训,让他们掌握相关产业所需的技能,而中国在过去四十年的发展过程中积累了大量工业化的培训经验和技术。其次是文化领域,即人文交流。对此我有切身体会。在我出任驻中国大使后,我对中国的看法发生了根本性的变化,因为我有机会亲自接触中国人民和了解中国文化。现在我们双方都是通过媒体和互联网了解对方,缺乏民间的实际交流,因此我们需要在这方面展开更多的合作,为深入了解对方创造更多的机会。我们相互间的了解越多,我们的合作才能更顺畅和富有成果。在我看来,如果希望中非合作论坛能够取得成功,结出硕果,加强双方的民间交往至关重要。最后是我们应当怎样学习中国的扶贫经验。中国在这方面无疑有出色的表现,但我们需要思考怎样将其运用于自己的国家。贝宁现在已经与云南省政府展开了合作。去年中非合作论坛后,我们国家的总统访问了云南省,希望能与其开展地方合作。要将中非合作论坛形成的框架落实到地方层级,就需要我们更加关注人文交流,加强地方政府的参与,这样才能让普通民众感受到它产生的影响力。


英文版



A spiritual journey with reference significance

——Interview with H.E. Ambassador Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE of The Republic of Benin to China

By Xu Chengzhi  Pei Andi   China Investment



Since 2016, I have visited Henan province 4 times, Henan’s rapid development has impressed me. Through our visit to this trip, to meet people, to listen to them, to understand what they’re doing, it makes a total difference. I realized that works in one place may not work in another place, because they have different cultural backgrounds and you need to start from the actual situation in each place to find the feasible ideas.” His Excellency Simon ADOVELANDE, Ambassador of Benin to China, said in an interview with the Chinese investment reporter about the event of “African Envoys to the Grassroots”.

Deeply impressed by Henan

China Investment: I am aware of  that you have visited many provinces in China. Compared with them, what aspects of this trip to Henan have left you a deep impression?

Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE:Yes, I was so lucky that I already visited 14 provinces in China in two years. And for me, each province has its own characteristics. You never find two provinces in China which have the same characteristics because most of the time, I always spend time to go to the museum anytime that I go to a province, I learn a little bit about the history of the province. For me, Henan is a concentration of the past, the present and the future.

When we visited the Museum of China Writing in Anyang, we saw one of the key components of the civilization of China, the Chinese writing down from the past dynasties.

When you look at that Museum, the whole history of the writing of China, you can understand that one of the key components of the development of China is the continuation of the writing. That kept the civilization, the history, but also how one nation can have at the end, one language uniting everybody. That is one of the challenges of Africa. Each country, from one country to the other, it’s difficult to communicate.

Like it here, China have more than 1 billion people who speak the same language and write the same language. That is the key of the civilization,one of keys of the civilization, and I learnt that in that museum. Actually, this is my fourth visit to Henan province, but it is also my most profound experience.

⬆African Envoys Visited Museum of China Writing in Anyang

The unique culture and spirit of Henan

China Investment: Compared with your previous visits to Henan province, what major changes have taken place  in Henan?

Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE:Firstly, this visit was organized by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and my counterparts are all diplomatic envoys of African countries. We went to several cities in Henan and visited different areas of the province, and they all left a fresh impression. The first time I went to Henan was in 2016. The provincial capital, Zhengzhou, was a modern city. Since Zhengzhou is a trading hub, we had seen  infrastructure such as busy airports and many new roads. This time I went to see a lot of new buildings and infrastructure there, indicating that they have developed very fast in just two years.

Then, we visited the Longmen Grottoes in Luoyang City, which let you experience the firm determination of the faith, because the people at that time were carving on such a mountain, it is really amazing. This requires not only faith and determination, but also the emperor or leader at that time must have a magnificent vision and the support of the people to create such a miraculous miracle. Then we went to visit the Shaolin Temple, the birthplace of Chinese martial arts, and it was amazing. There are not only many tourists, but also students studying martial arts from all over the world. I met students from countries such as Côte d’Ivoire, Benin and Germany. Why did they go to the temple to study in a thousand miles? Isn’t it also a spiritual pursuit? Then there was Anyang and we visited the Red Flag Canal. The 1,500-kilometer artificial canal passes through the mountains! It’s incredible. I believe that it fully reflects the courage and strength of the Chinese people to work hard in the face of challenges.

There is also Lankao, where we learned about Jiao Yulu’s life. As a leader, he changed the face of the local community and helped people get rid of poverty. I think he set an example for other officials. His spirit of serving the people is worth learning. He was still very young at the time, facing the challenges, but he did it, very admirable. I am from Benin and our country is facing the challenge of poverty. Therefore, the experience of Jiao Yulu and Lankao can be used for reference. The earth-shaking changes they have made are also worth learning.

The experience of poverty alleviation and industrial development

China Investment: As you mentioned the efforts of the people of Lankao to get rid of poverty and your country is also working hard to get people out of poverty. Does the experience of poverty alleviation in Lankao have any significance to Benin?

Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE:Especially when I look at some areas in Henan Province, when I looked at the mountains, they remind me of the northern part of Benin. We have the similar area that has a lot of mountains. There’s similar terrain, but the poverty rate is higher in the country. I can see how, even though they are surrounded by mountains, they can still manage to bring people out of poverty and make the mountains a source of development. Because when you go to Lankao, you see that not only they are building infrastructures but the city has become a place of tourism through the music instrument. It’s a demonstration on how you can take your normal environment and transform it as an income source. It’s amazing. I went to the place where they made the music instrument and all those ladies and people who are working, the place becomes famous. Then people come from abroad, it’s becoming a source of tourism. And for me, it’s very inspiring to see that you can transform your natural challenge into the benefits of the people as shown in the example.

It’s also the vision of the leader. What I discovered  is, the leaders are so connected to the people, they identify themselves with the people and then, when they bring solution, they have the people join them because the people identify themselves with the leaders and the leaders identify with them. It became a challenge for everyone, and then together, they face the challenge and find the solution. You cannot have people, even the leader, to work alone to deal with the challenge. The leader needs the people to agree with him on what he suggested. But it’s happened only when the leader identify himself with the people. And people trust him because they regard him as their own people and that is what I find in the local. After that, I read a lot about Jiao Yulu. I think he’s somebody that gets the attention of the people because he cares for the people. And people see him as a leader not just because he is the party representative but he’s their own people. It’s the sacrifice he went through and people saw that, it made a difference. And it’s something that touched me a lot.

China Investment:  During this trip to Henan, African envoys also visited the industrial park and enterprises in Henan Province, do you think there is any experience in these areas for African countries to learn from?

Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE:One of the lessons I gained during my visit to Henan was agricultural development. We visited a tractor manufacturer and learned about its history. The purpose of the factory they built in the past was to meet the needs of agricultural development. This is a place for us to learn. I think we can cooperate in this area. Zhengzhou has now become a transportation hub in central China, and various infrastructures, including airports, have connected all parts of China. Therefore, cooperation in agricultural products can be carried out. We held an economic forum with some companies in Zhengzhou, Henan Province. Some companies in Henan have started business cooperation with some African countries, although not in Benin. Therefore, now we have to learn from their successful experiences. At the moment, we have established contacts with a number of agribusinesses and e-commerce companies to see what we can do together. One of the purposes of this trip is to learn and identify opportunities to work with Henan Province.

In addition, most of our African countries will think about the development of southern China, such as Guangzhou, but I think we should pay more attention to Zhengzhou in terms of e-commerce, trade cooperation and air transportation hubs. We visited the Zhengzhou International Commodity Exchange Center and which can be used for import and export. Moreover, Henan Province has great potential for development in the field of e-commerce. Therefore, the Embassy hopes to continue to explore what kind of cooperation Benin and Henan can develop in developing e-commerce. I even plan to go again and talk to them about how our country and the embassy should cooperate with them to promote the development of both sides.

In addition, we visited one hospital, that one also was a great experience. To see how China, takes care and manages the health system, because I was always wondering how they can give healthcare to such a big number of people. That is part of my question, that I can see in reality how the system functions and it requests a lot of attention from the government in terms of infrastructure, in terms of equipment, in terms of the software to manage all the system. And for me, it’s something that we have to learn from. Also in Henan, they have the experience of working together with African countries and sent abroad doctors in Africa. Especially, the China Medical Team, It’s amazing. That shows also the heart of sharing from Chinese people to others. You know you can see that, when China goes out is not for war but is for sharing. Sharing prosperity, but also sharing the care for others. And for me, that one also was a great experience. Even I write a note to my minister of health, to see how we can organize the trip for the people from Benin to come, just to visit. To go around and to learn. Thank you for reminding me of that, and I was so excited about the trip.

Expectations after the FOCAC

China Investment: On a higher level, Eight Initiatives were put forward at the FOCAC held in Beijing in 2018. 2019 is the first year of implementation of these action plans, what are your expectations for this??

Simon Pierre ADOVELANDE: The first expectation is we have the opportunity this year in June to have the first economic and trade forum and expo in Changsha in June. For me, it is a very great platform which came after the discussion, the political discussion in the forum last September. We have now a concrete aspect that we can discuss and start to work on. Because, for me, trade is the key for the implementation. For many years, we focus on infrastructure but we need to come to trade and people to people cooperation. And for me, my expectation for this year is the forum in Changsha, the economic and trade forum in Changsha. For me, it’s the good starting point to start with concrete action. The FOCAC is the framework but we need now to break it down and think about the the impact of it.

For me, trade and people to people exchange is really the key. Then my expectation is very huge for that forum in June. But before that is to see those areas that we don’t takea it into account most of the time because like I mentioned, we are most focused on infrastructure and I think at that level, China is doing a great job. This time, we need to move further, how to have more impact on people. And I’ve seen three areas, the first one is education. You know at this time, China is suggesting giving a scholarship for people to come and study in China but I think we need also more attention in vocational professional training. Because most of our countries are now building infrastructure, the tourism and industrial park but to work in industrial park, we need skill. The local people need skill to be available for the industries. Then we need to focus now in the training of those people. And China has developed those past 40 years, a lot of training, a lot of skill, in terms of industrialization. Then that is one aspect. The second aspect that I think is a cultural aspect, People to People. The idea that I have towards China before I come as Ambassador, has totally changed when I came here, visiting people, understanding the culture of China. Both sides, they know each other through media and the internet. And there’s not through China and not the through Africa. We need now to have more cooperation in culture, people to people. That will get more understanding for both sides. The better we know each another, better we work together and achieve greater results. And for me that is very important. If you want to make the FOCAC successful, this FOCAC result successful, we need to get more people to people relationship and for me it’s the key for both sides. And then the last one will be how we take experience of the poverty alleviation. That have been done in China, here this past year. How we can learn from that and apply, in our countries. And through the trip, the study tour but also through the local government cooperation, etc. Benin start with one experience now with the province of Yunnan Province. After the FOCAC, my president visited Yunnan Province, and now we want to develop a local cooperation between Benin and Yunnan Province. To break it down to the level of local administration. Those are the areas that I think for this FOCAC, we need to focus more on those aspects, People to People, local government involvement, that we make more impact for me to meet the people on the ground.

⬆African Envoys Visited the First Affiliated Hospital of Zhengzhou University


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